(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[2400]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]
DT[2007-04-29]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[delux [-\]: hello
bdgy [6k\]: hi
Violence [?\]: Hello
Shana [4k\]: hi
AndreAy [1k\]: hallo
agui [4k\]: Hello
backpacker [2k\]: hello
ScarletFox [14k\]: hello :-)
IamNoob [14k\]: hello
AA101: hi
Kaizen [4k?\]: hello !!
pelister [13k\]: hi
icebucket [-\]: good day
raga2504 [6k\]: hi :)
hohokekyo [-\]: hi
Scribe [-\]: Nihao GuoJuan Laoshi
lupis [3k\]: hello ^^
AA101: hi
EmTom [1k\]: man im sure happy to be here :) havent seen guo juan's lecture for ages
Violence [?\]: \\o/ Chinese opening! yay!
JYPPZ [7k\]: hello
Scribe [-\]: Guo Juan is currently studying the Chinese Opening for the audio lectures at http://www.goaudiolessons.com
Grindel [8k\]: hello guojuan
]
;B[pd]C[Arminius [13k\]: Hello
]
;W[dp]
;B[pq]
(;W[dd]
(;B[qk]TR[qk][pq]C[AndreAy [1k\]: r9
Scribe [-\]: Chinese Opening
Grindel [8k\]: i know chinese 
Grindel [8k\]: that's chinese low 
kaczki [4d\]: i dont know chinese opening :/
icebucket [-\]: Mr chen
Javaness [1d\]: hi 
guojuan [5p\]: Chen Zhude
Scribe [-\]: Goes back to the 1960's Chen Zhude created this opening to fight the Japanese
Grindel [8k\]: master Wu 
guojuan [5p\]: mo yang
Grindel [8k\]: moyo 
Violence [?\]: mo yang = moyo in Japanese
Scribe [-\]: r9 strives to create a big framework and attack White strongly if White enters
Scribe [-\]: Chinese: 模样 (mo2 yang4) 
Jadeite [14k?\]: fast opening
guojuan [5p\]: Zhude liu 
Scribe [-\]: Chen Zhude is the first Chinese to beat a Japanese 9 dan pro
Grindel [8k\]: chinese high 
Violence [?\]: Kato Masao likes High Chinese Opening.
Scribe [-\]: Kato Masao adapted the Chinese into the High Chinese Opening by playing at q9
Scribe [-\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?ChenZude
Brocoly [2d\]: isn't he wrote a book on it?
DanMoD [6d\]: -..-
yithril [1d\]: haha
icebucket [-\]: Yay
Scribe [-\]: See also the 4th chapter of Guo Juan's book The World of Chinese Go.
ScarletFox [14k\]: so o3?
AndreAy [1k\]: o17
Tokee [5k\]: not your, his
AndreAy [1k\]: o17
Kisame361 [23k\]: your from holland?
EmTom [1k\]: hurray!
promon: what if black plays o4 now?
EmTom [1k\]: white will move k4 to g4 as guojuan showed
promon: okay sorry...
thick [?\]: wow
icebucket [-\]: Rin kaiho. Taiwanese.  Only formal student of Go Seigen
yithril [1d\]: the noodles?
Violence [?\]: Yes
DanMoD [6d\]: yes!!
Violence [?\]: China v Japan v Korea
Jadeite [14k?\]: spicy noodles
Tokee [5k\]: noodle "cup" =)
Seeguu [5k\]: ^^
DanMoD [6d\]: lol
Jadeite [14k?\]: yes
Violence [?\]: They're pretty good.
icebucket [-\]: Gu li!!!
Erstnick [5k\]: the winner gets 1 ton of instant noodles
guojuan [5p\]: Lee changho
DanMoD [6d\]: yes
Tokee [5k\]: gu li is one of the best Chinese , isnt he?
icebucket [-\]: yes 
AndreAy [1k\]: Noodles Cup rules adapted by Kuchen-Cup between Leipzig and Jena
Tokee [5k\]: hehe
]
(;W[po]C[Javaness [1d\]: yes Kato Masao wrote a book on it
Jadeite [14k?\]: not
AndreAy [1k\]: no
Erstnick [5k\]: no
Scribe [-\]: Kato's book on the High Chinese Opening
Kaizen [4k?\]: not
Shana [4k\]: no
AndreAy [1k\]: too early
backpacker [2k\]: no?
gotobigo [3k\]: still ok
IamNoob [14k\]: its not got
Grindel [8k\]: r5 
Grindel [8k\]: k3 or l3 ??
Scribe [-\]: but White very small....few points
]
(;B[np]
;W[qq]
;B[qr]
;W[qp]
;B[rr]C[icebucket [-\]: Ah...!
]
(;W[ql]C[Scribe [-\]: Now white is constricted....too small an area
]
(;B[rl])
(;B[pk])
(;B[pl]C[icebucket [-\]: preempt white's joseki with Q5 to R9
]))
(;W[qm]LB[lq:A]TR[np][pq]C[IamNoob [14k\]: attack at top will make better
AndreAy [1k\]: o17
Jadeite [14k?\]: B attack and make proffit
Scribe [-\]: White is not alive
Violence [?\]: P8
mugeimumei [7k\]: o9
Tokee [5k\]: s6
agui [4k\]: P9
yithril [1d\]: p9
IamNoob [14k\]: B p7
Scribe [-\]: Where should Black play now ?
Violence [?\]: P8 
AndreAy [1k\]: k3
Scribe [-\]:  Black shape has weakness of open door at m3
icebucket [-\]: Ah.  O4  more appropriate to press white Q5 incursion
Brocoly [2d\]: O6?
JYPPZ [7k\]: O6
yithril [1d\]: l3?
]
(;B[nk]
;W[qi]C[backpacker [2k\]: k16
])
(;B[fq]C[AndreAy [1k\]: f3
Nirvanaki [14k?\]: h3?
Erstnick [5k\]: cant attack w more?
Grindel [8k\]: nice 
icebucket [-\]: F4?
]
;W[cn]C[Erstnick [5k\]: i use to play p9
]
;B[nn]
;W[om]
;B[on]
;W[pn]
;B[pl]
;W[rk]
;B[rj]
;W[rl]C[Scribe [-\]: Too early for White to invade the bottom
]
;B[qi]
;W[pm]
;B[jp]C[Scribe [-\]: Joseki
icebucket [-\]: wow never seen this joseki.
Scribe [-\]: White now alive
])))
(;B[nq]
;W[qq]
;B[qr]
;W[qp]
;B[rr]
;W[qm]))
(;W[qo]C[Violence [?\]: bad move?
Violence [?\]: R4!
AndreAy [1k\]: r4
agui [4k\]: R4
]
;B[qp]C[icebucket [-\]: pusnish it
]
;W[po]C[Violence [?\]: O4
DanMoD [6d\]: lol
yithril [1d\]: o4
icebucket [-\]: keep kicking
Scribe [-\]: p4 is more secure
]
(;B[np]C[AndreAy [1k\]: o4
agui [4k\]: O4
Erstnick [5k\]: is q5 the only move?
Scribe [-\]: o4 is dan level proper move
Scribe [-\]: WHite has no room to make a base
Scribe [-\]: Chinese Opening: Attack from the outside not the inside
]
(;W[qm]
;B[ok]
;W[nn]
;B[lp])
(;W[qf]
;B[qe]C[Grindel [8k\]: don't hate 
]
;W[pf]
;B[nd]
;W[qi]
;B[ok]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: w 2 weak groups?
AndreAy [1k\]: yes
agui [4k\]: yes
JYPPZ [7k\]: y
Kaizen [4k?\]: yes
Jadeite [14k?\]: W falls into B trap
]))
(;B[op]))
(;W[qf]LB[nc:A][qe:B][qh:C]TR[pd][qk][pq]C[Violence [?\]: R12
yithril [1d\]: r15
AndreAy [1k\]: no
agui [4k\]: yes
Violence [?\]: bad idea
Nirvanaki [14k?\]: r15
Tokee [5k\]: its better I guess
Arminius [13k\]: O17
Erstnick [5k\]: same mistake
Tokee [5k\]: 017
wordplay [4d\]: how about s15 now?
icebucket [-\]: attack!
Nirvanaki [14k?\]: haha
Erstnick [5k\]: "...we can play kung fu" ? :D
]
(;B[qe]C[IamNoob [14k\]: how will you see if I rise my hand?
]
;W[pf]C[Grindel [8k\]: run 
]
;B[nd]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: ^^
]
;W[qi]
;B[oj]
;W[oh]C[yithril [1d\]: s11
]
;B[jp]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: r6?
])
(;B[nc]C[Scribe [-\]: Similiar idea to attacking teh White invasion on the bottom right
Scribe [-\]: not good move o17
agui [4k\]: S16
Violence [?\]: Too easy on white
Erstnick [5k\]: isnt attacking
jantiff [-\]: too kind
Scribe [-\]: no pressure on White
AndreAy [1k\]: W s16
yithril [1d\]: w lives easily
Tokee [5k\]: too lash
EmTom [1k\]: s16
Nirvanaki [14k?\]: w makes eays base
icebucket [-\]: ... black running away from fight....
ScarletFox [14k\]: white goes for the corner
Redjoker [1d\]: 11r
Exodus [9k\]: can move into corner
backpacker [2k\]: R11 
ryusejin [3d?\]: ๐5
Arminius [13k\]: R17
agui [4k\]: white gets a base
Scribe [-\]: o17 is slack
Scribe [-\]: White settles
]
;W[rd]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: yo
]
;B[qc]
;W[qi])
(;B[qh]C[AndreAy [1k\]: r17
agui [4k\]: overconcentrated
Nirvanaki [14k?\]: p14?
Violence [?\]: White O16?
Tokee [5k\]: sansan is for white ok now
ScarletFox [14k\]: white takes the corner again
Prtg: too low, bad balance
Erstnick [5k\]: too low
]
;W[nd]C[agui [4k\]: white R17
]
;B[pf]
;W[pg]
;B[qg]
;W[pc]
;B[qe]
;W[qc]C[DanMoD [6d\]: counter-pincer
isshoni [7k\]: flat all on 1 side
]
;B[of]
;W[kc]TR[qk]C[Scribe [-\]: advanced joseki
Scribe [-\]: White get good position on the top
icebucket [-\]: telekinesis works :^
Saiclops [?\]: everyone who believes in telekinesis, please raise my hand
Tokee [5k\]: *g*
]
(;AE[qk]AB[pn]C[Scribe [-\]: r9 is too close to r12 group
Scribe [-\]: better to have r9 at q6
thick [?\]: :)
])
(;AE[qh])))
(;W[nc]C[AndreAy [1k\]: moyo as big as possible
]
(;B[pf]
;W[jd]C[Tokee [5k\]: jealousness leads to heartattack 
icebucket [-\]: K4
Violence [?\]: K4
Scribe [-\]: Cauberg "mountain" in Holland
DanMoD [6d\]: -_-
]
(;B[cj]
;W[mq]
;B[po]
;W[jq]C[icebucket [-\]: erg?
Violence [?\]: I don't like black
yithril [1d\]: b is all on the right side
Nirvanaki [14k?\]: w
AndreAy [1k\]: c10 bad
Seeguu [5k\]: i like b
Nirvanaki [14k?\]: to passiv
Kaizen [4k?\]: moyo is over
Child [9k\]: white is too low
yithril [1d\]: w is on top and bottom
ligo [?\]: b
Tokee [5k\]: unbalanced
smudge [5k\]: now white looks bigger
icebucket [-\]: can't develop left.  lost 2 corner
Grindel [8k\]: i like black 
whendrik [-\]: r9 not feeling right
Violence [?\]: Moyo is too small
jantiff [-\]: the moyo can't grow much :(
backpacker [2k\]: moyos are even
AndreAy [1k\]: W two side, B only one
Scribe [-\]: Black position is not good
Nirvanaki [14k?\]: haha
icebucket [-\]: lol
Tokee [5k\]: lool
Scribe [-\]: Black has been flattened
DanMoD [6d\]: lol
Erstnick [5k\]: build mountains on the board
Tokee [5k\]: mountainbiking out of question
]
(;B[]
(;W[qm])
(;W[qh]C[icebucket [-\]: well.. it safes gas.
JYPPZ [7k\]: D10 is Everest !
]))
(;AE[qk]AB[ql]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: but w can envade too
Nirvanaki [14k?\]: b*
]))
(;B[fq]
(;W[cn]
;B[jp]
(;W[po])
(;W[]
;B[po]))
(;W[ip]C[AndreAy [1k\]: Can B play o16 instead of q14?
]))
(;B[jp]))
(;AB[jd][pf]C[icebucket [-\]: ^^
]))
(;W[mp]C[Seeguu [5k\]: ^^
Violence [?\]: Complex josekis!
icebucket [-\]: O.O
Violence [?\]: And then the pincers
yithril [1d\]: cool
AndreAy [1k\]: ok
Scribe [-\]: White is Gu Li
]
(;B[po]
;W[jp]
(;B[cn])
(;B[fc]))
(;B[jp]
;W[pp]C[Child [9k\]: related to Gobg Li ?
]
;B[qp]
;W[qq]C[Seeguu [5k\]: wow
Erstnick [5k\]: andreay you have seen this k4 move ever?
]))
(;W[jp]C[AndreAy [1k\]: k4 allows B n4
]
;B[fc]
;W[mp]C[Kaizen [4k?\]: becouse B will play M4 instead
yithril [1d\]: b could...
Kisame361 [23k\]: i think i do
yithril [1d\]: take o4
AA101:   
AA101:  
AA101:  
AA101:  
AA101:  
DanMoD [6d\]: o4??
Namii [3d\]: B can P4?
Scribe [-\]: o4 played for the first time by Rin Kaiho
]
(;B[po])
(;B[np]C[Namii [3d\]: :(
AA101: o4
silver2k4 [1d?\]: o.o
]
;W[no]C[DanMoD [6d\]: huge corner! *-*
]
;B[op]
;W[mo]
;B[pn]C[AndreAy [1k\]: now k4 overconcentrated
]
;W[]LB[kp:2][lp:1]TR[mo][no][jp][mp]C[Scribe [-\]: n3 worth 15 points in sente
delux [-\]:  
]
(;B[mq]
;W[lq]
;B[mr]C[yithril [1d\]: wow huge
]
;W[lr]C[Scribe [-\]: big yose on the bottom
]
;B[ls]
;W[ks]
;B[ms]
;W[jr])
(;AE[jp]AW[gp]C[Scribe [-\]: k4 is too close to n4
])))
(;W[mq])
(;W[np])
(;W[nq])
(;W[jq]LB[fq:A]C[yithril [1d\]: weaker on the corner
yithril [1d\]: w corner still open
Erstnick [5k\]: moyo
]
;B[cn])
(;W[fq]C[Javaness [1d\]: black can play N4 if white plays on hoshi
yithril [1d\]: whats the difference?
DanMoD [6d\]: o_O
Erstnick [5k\]: haha
Scribe [-\]: NongShim Cup game....China, Japan, Korea Super match...Team Tournament...Spicy Noodles Cup
Scribe [-\]: Black is Lee Changho
DanMoD [6d\]: i even hate the L4 pincer more... -..-
Scribe [-\]: Final Game of the Nong Shim Cup
Kisame361 [-\]: leechangho is my favorite pro player!
Scribe [-\]: What is the difference between K3 and F3 for White ?
siis [1d?\]: g3 sorry
Scribe [-\]: with f3 on the board the lower left is stronger
]
(;B[cn]
(;W[co]
;B[dn]
;W[dk])
(;W[ck]C[siis [1d?\]: lee sedol used to play g4 instead f3
Scribe [-\]: Following k3 the white corner is still attackable
]))
(;B[fc]
;W[cf]C[yithril [1d\]: if its high
]
(;B[jc]C[AndreAy [1k\]: k17 can be pressed
]
(;W[qc]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: 3rd line invasion
]
(;B[pc]
;W[qd]
;B[qe]
;W[re]
;B[rf]
;W[qf]
;B[pe]
;W[rg]
;B[rd]
;W[sf]
;B[rc])
(;B[qd]
;W[pc]
;B[oc]
;W[ob]
;B[nb]
(;W[nc]
;B[od]
;W[mb]
;B[pb]
;W[na]
;B[qb]C[yithril [1d\]: m16?
Tokee [5k\]: o16?
DanMoD [6d\]: m17
Violence [?\]: M17?
yithril [1d\]: n16 i mean
Shinichi56 [1k\]: n15
]
;W[]
;B[lc]C[Jadeite [14k?\]: n15 ?
])
(;W[rd]
;B[re]
;W[qe]C[Scribe [-\]: Black makes a lot of territory if white invades at 3,3 point
Violence [?\]: P16
backpacker [2k\]: yes
yithril [1d\]: yeah
DanMoD [6d\]: Q15 is the strongest answer
]
(;B[od]C[Scribe [-\]: not too bad for white
]
;W[rf]
;B[rc]
;W[se]
;B[rb]
;W[qi]C[Scribe [-\]: r16 is an advanced joseki
])
(;B[rc]C[AndreAy [1k\]: q15
yithril [1d\]: haha
]
;W[od]C[Grindel [8k\]: p16 
])
(;B[pe]
;W[rc]C[Scribe [-\]: terrible for black
]
(;B[qf]
;W[nc]
;B[od]
;W[mb])
(;B[nd]C[Tokee [5k\]: black spilled all the noodle soup
]
;W[qf]
;B[rf]
;W[qg]
;B[rg]
;W[qh]
;B[rh]
;W[qi]
;B[ri]C[Kisame361 [-\]: lol
]
;W[qj]C[DanMoD [6d\]: lol
]
;B[rj]
;W[pb]C[Scribe [-\]: black escapes to the r9 stone
yithril [1d\]: w terrible ;)
]
;B[pk]C[Scribe [-\]: black gets sente
])))))
(;W[qf]C[IamNoob [14k\]: Q12
Grindel [8k\]: o17 
agui [4k\]: R15
Violence [?\]: r15?
Javaness [1d\]: pincer?
AndreAy [1k\]: r15
Redjoker [1d\]: s16?
Shana [4k\]: r15?
zitoune [10k\]: q14
Seeguu [5k\]: r15?
Erstnick [5k\]: why not r15?
seidelin [2k\]: s15
Child [9k\]: r12 
DanMoD [6d\]: r16?
]
(;B[qe]C[pelister [13k\]: r15 
pasky [6k\]: q14 interesting idea...
]
;W[pf]
;B[nd]C[Tokee [5k\]: o16 and o17 both good?
]
;W[qi]
;B[oj]C[IamNoob [14k\]: S11-> S10
Kisame361 [-\]: yes
Jadeite [14k?\]: thank you
Erstnick [5k\]: is r14 a good move or you think the players were just tired about the "normal" moves?
Jadeite [14k?\]: outside
Erstnick [5k\]: not invade too early
thoel [?\]: don't invade too early
Violence [?\]: Reduce
EmTom [1k\]: make it like netherlands ;)
JYPPZ [7k\]: attack from outside
DanMoD [6d\]: lol
thoel [?\]: flat
EmTom [1k\]: i know ;)
Brocoly [2d\]: =)
Scribe [-\]: Xiexie GuoJuan Laoshi
agui [4k\]: Thank you very much
Violence [?\]: Xie xie Guo Laoshi
thoel [?\]: thank you
Seeguu [5k\]: thank you
Grindel [8k\]: http://gobase.org/replay/?gam=/games/inter/matches/nongshim/8/game-304.sgf
Kisame361 [-\]: thank you
Scribe [-\]: Thanks to the Ing Goe Foundation
ScarletFox [13k\]: thank you :-)
Grindel [8k\]: Thank you 
itachi1989 [7k\]: thx
promon: thank you for the lesson!
Lanowen [10k?\]: thank you
jantiff [-\]: thanks for teaching !
EmTom [1k\]: thank you guojuan it was nice to be here again :)
Kisame361 [-\]: thanks for the great lecture
thick [?\]: thank you!
IamNoob [14k\]: arigato
Scribe [-\]: Guo Juan will be at the US Go Congress ?
isshoni [7k\]: thx
DanMoD [6d\]: thanks for the lessons :)
JYPPZ [7k\]: thanks Guo Juan
Kisame361 [-\]: ya
Zeth [7k\]: Thank you for the lesson
Scribe [-\]: YEAH
Kisame361 [-\]: cool
Kisame361 [-\]: im going there
Scribe [-\]: :)
AndreAy [1k\]: thanks for the lesson
Kisame361 [-\]: ok
Grindel [8k\]: thank you scribe 
Brocoly [2d\]: thanks
agui [4k\]: See you
]
(;W[oh]TR[oj][qk]C[Jadeite [14k?\]: B r12 too slow
Erstnick [5k\]: looks alittle low tokee?
backpacker [2k\]: k4
Sonni [1k\]: f15
Violence [?\]: S11?
Tokee [5k\]: can be...
yithril [1d\]: i know but ill let everyone guess
agui [4k\]: S12
yithril [1d\]: s11
DanMoD [6d\]: b5? lol
Tellwell [3k\]: p17
AndreAy [1k\]: q12
Scribe [-\]: s11 is a new move !
Violence [?\]: Cut
backpacker [2k\]: cut
]
(;B[ri]C[jasonlai [2d\]: n4
DanMoD [6d\]: o_O"
Javaness [1d\]: black quite clever
delux [-\]: b+1.5
promon: what if white played r10?
delux [-\]: R10
Tokee [5k\]: erstnick: maybe try a ladder training
]
(;W[rj]
;B[qj]C[Scribe [-\]: White is so small
]
;W[rh]
;B[pi]
;W[qh]
;B[rk]C[Tokee [5k\]: my guess is w+0.5 =)
Grindel [8k\]: and it only cost one stone 
]
;W[si]C[Jadeite [14k?\]: B protect above and below
]
;B[rf]
;W[rg]
;B[re]C[Erstnick [5k\]: wow
]
(;W[]
;B[ph])
(;W[ph]C[Erstnick [5k\]: how did you see this so fast
]))
(;W[rh]
;B[pi]
;W[ph]
;B[qj]
;W[qh]C[Erstnick [5k\]: i always have to try ladders in a copied game 
]
;B[re])
(;W[qh]
;B[qj]C[AndreAy [1k\]: Why W q12?
])
(;W[qj]C[Erstnick [5k\]: s10 impossible?
]
;B[rj]
;W[pk]C[Violence [?\]: Fight!
AutoAtari [4k\]: first rule: follow the widest band diagonally; if it doesn't meet or touch any stone then the ladder works
IamNoob [14k\]: pain is fun
DanMoD [6d\]: that's Gu Li -_-
Scribe [-\]: Gu Li forced to help Lee Changho to make territory on the right
Scribe [-\]: Very Beautiful game
Scribe [-\]: dates ?
Seeguu [5k\]: who against who and where to find it ^^
Violence [?\]: February 9th, 2007
]
;B[qh]C[Violence [?\]: Gu Li vs Lee Changho
]
;W[ql]C[Scribe [-\]: Available on www.goaudiolessons.com
]
;B[rk]
;W[ph]C[Kisame361 [-\]: ya i agree
]
;B[pj]C[Seeguu [5k\]: thank you ^^
]
;W[pi]
;B[pl]
;W[ok]
;B[nj]
;W[pm]C[delux [-\]: kifu http://www.go4go.net/v2/modules/collection/printable.php?id=13952
Kisame361 [-\]: leechangho is awsome
jantiff [-\]: ouch, not easy
]))
(;B[]C[Javaness [1d\]: cut
AutoAtari [4k\]: not hard, just follow the diagonal
]
;W[pk]C[AndreAy [1k\]: q9 cut
]
;B[pj]C[thick [?\]: q9
]
;W[qj]C[Kisame361 [-\]: cut
DanMoD [6d\]: Q9
Violence [?\]: good for black
]
;B[pl]C[Erstnick [5k\]: hard to see if lader works
backpacker [2k\]: black
]))
(;W[mg])
(;W[nh]))
(;B[qh]C[Kaizen [4k?\]: r12
]
;W[qc]
;B[qd]
;W[pc]
;B[od]
;W[rd]
;B[re]
;W[rc]
;B[qe]
;W[nc]C[Scribe [-\]: r12 is wrong: r15 is the move to attack
])))
(;B[jd]C[Scribe [-\]: Lee Changho playing fast moves
Scribe [-\]: k17 a little strange
yithril [1d\]: the 3,3 invasion
Scribe [-\]: expect to see k16 in place of k17
Grindel [8k\]: one is cut 
Violence [?\]: H17 is more severe
yithril [1d\]: w can move out
]
;W[qc]
;B[pc]
;W[qd]
;B[qe]
;W[re]
;B[rf]
;W[pb]
;B[ob]
;W[oc]
;B[od]
;W[qb]
;B[pf]
;W[nc]
;B[nb]
;W[mc]
;B[mb]
;W[lc]
;B[lb]C[icebucket [-\]: AH!
]
;W[kc]
;B[kb]
;W[jc]C[icebucket [-\]: wrong place to stop
]
;B[rd]
;W[rc]C[Scribe [-\]: Now Black is in trouble and White happy
]
;B[se]C[AndreAy [1k\]: awful for B
Violence [?\]: 4
yithril [1d\]: 4
]
;W[jb]C[IamNoob [14k\]: 4
Child [9k\]: but is there no better joseki for b ?
icebucket [-\]: more
Tokee [5k\]: 4+
XiaXia [2k\]: more
Redjoker [1d\]: 9
icebucket [-\]: + eye
]
(;B[]
;W[oa]
;B[sb]
;W[na]
;B[sc]
;W[ma]C[Kisame361 [-\]: that killed blacks eye shape
]
;B[rb]
;W[ka])
(;B[sb]
;W[ka]
;B[sc]
;W[la]
;B[rb]
;W[ma]
;B[qa]
;W[ec]))
(;B[kc]))))
(;B[qo]
;W[qi])
(;B[pk]))
(;W[po]
(;B[np]
;W[qq]
;B[qr]
;W[qp]
;B[or]C[Scribe [-\]: Wu Qingyuan had already played the two stones at q3 and r9, but without q16 on the board
]
(;W[ql])
(;W[qk]C[Scribe [-\]: White is comfortable
]))
(;B[nq]
;W[qq]
;B[qr]
;W[qp]
;B[rr]
;W[qk]TR[qk][po][qp][qq])))
