(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2] RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50] PW[Tim Hunt]PB[Wang-zi]DT[2007-01-07]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[London Open 2006 Round 2 Wang-zi (black) vs Tim Hunt 3D B+Rlinconnu [2k\]: hi ! CcB [7k\]: hi MRei [1d\]: hi Javaness [1d\]: hi guojuan Creslin [5k\]: Yes DanielFox [4k\]: yes linconnu [2k\]: yes sprang [-\]: hi yes clemi [?\]: yes Scribe [-\]: Ni hao Laoshi Soul [4k\]: hello lucifex [6k\]: yes Hu [6k\]: Happy New Year! agui [4k\]: Hello Bodo212 [8k\]: hello hear clearly Javaness [1d\]: oh I was at this tournament too Hu [6k\]: Sound is good. clemi [?\]: hi Asumi [5d?\]: Happy New Year to You too LPDavid [6k\]: Happy new year to you agui [4k\]: Happy new year ! DanielFox [4k\]: 拜年 Zelda23 [6k\]: hello Javaness [1d\]: we missed you Idn [1k\]: Hello, happy new zear !!! Idn [1k\]: year ] (;B[qd] (;W[dd]C[Scribe [-\]: Game from the London Open ] ;B[pq]C[Asumi [5d?\]: Londom Open game ] ;W[dp] ;B[fc] ;W[cf] (;B[db]C[Scribe [-\]: newly created/found move at p6 ] ;W[cc] ;B[ic] ;W[qo] ;B[qk]C[Asumi [5d?\]: whole-board insights ^_^ ] ;W[pp] ;B[oq] ;W[qq] ;B[qr] ;W[rq] ;B[lq]LB[qk:2][qm:A][qo:1][pp:3][lq:8][oq:4][qq:5][rq:7][qr:6][rr:B]C[MRei [1d\]: *r7 sprang [-\]: R3 group health is ok Scribe [-\]: white is settled in the lower right ImNoSensei [-\]: ok DanielFox [4k\]: 清楚 Bodo212 [8k\]: clear agui [4k\]: yes ] (;W[op]C[Scribe [-\]: r7 and s2 are miai in the lower right....white must get one of them to remain alive Scribe [-\]: the pushing from behind is needed in order to make the pincer of r11 work Bodo212 [8k\]: yes thx Scribe [-\]: but again, pincer of white r11 must be supported by white stones in the upper right ] ;B[np]C[lucifex [6k\]: because of r9 ] ;W[no] ;B[mp]LB[qm:B][op:A][rr:C]TR[mp][np][lq]C[agui [4k\]: bad Kamisama [5k\]: bad for whitw Kamisama [5k\]: white yithril [1k\]: makes black too strong Javaness [1d\]: looks bad to me ImNoSensei [-\]: no gain for W, B happy hansb [1k?\]: only good if white wants to attack MRei [1d\]: i think its bad for w celotaped [5k\]: negative Scribe [-\]: white push at p4 is a bad move Kamisama [5k\]: then white should have a stone somewhere around r10? Kamisama [5k\]: or shimari at the top? Scribe [-\]: the push of p4, o5 is okay when there a white stone in the upper right supporting an attack on the single balck stone at r9 ] (;W[od]C[ImNoSensei [-\]: W scared for his group maybe ? gomasch [2d\]: ok speaking1 [7k\]: clear grumpfl [6k\]: yes, but which move is better than p16? ] ;B[oc]C[Scribe [-\]: lower side is small, attacking the upper right corner is urgent for white Creslin [5k\]: Avalanche linconnu [2k\]: nadare Javaness [1d\]: nadare hansb [1k?\]: Q16 ImNoSensei [-\]: Q16 for sure splice [8k\]: nadare Kamisama [5k\]: avalanche maltar [4k\]: q16 Plunder [4k\]: never mind Kamisama [5k\]: no yithril [1k\]: yes Asumi [5d?\]: Can W do better approach than P16? Scribe [-\]: both black and white seek to place stones on the right side ] (;W[pd]C[Asumi [5d?\]: B more efficient ] ;B[pc]C[Scribe [-\]: pros do not play p17 because white will settle on the right attacking r9 via atari at s16 and extension to r12 ImNoSensei [-\]: very, thank you agui [4k\]: yes thankls kiyosumi [2d\]: yes Bodo212 [8k\]: yes thx hansb [1k?\]: what about white O16 iso Q16? ] ;W[qe]LB[nc:C][qc:B][nd:A]TR[ic][qk][no][op]C[Scribe [-\]: white seeks to attack the r9 stone ImNoSensei [-\]: does that mean P17 was bad ? Scribe [-\]: seeks to make the bad pushing from behind into good moves via attack on r9 hansb [1k?\]: O16 yithril [1k\]: o16 Scribe [-\]: after p17 there are two possible moves for white, extend and butt vs hane outside Javaness [1d\]: I like just B MRei [1d\]: a maltar [4k\]: A ruger [6k\]: A mrp [4k\]: c ZCXVas: b seidelin [2k\]: B sprang [-\]: B weee [5k\]: a Scribe [-\]: Black has three options: connect, extend, hane Kamisama [5k\]: B is to avoid complications lucifex [6k\]: a gomasch [2d\]: if i knew the joseki i'd play a, but in real game b :) Vanya [3k\]: B Kamisama [5k\]: a is avalanche joseki? Creslin [5k\]: B ImNoSensei [-\]: A hansb [1k?\]: A ] (;B[nd]TR[ic][qk]C[Scribe [-\]: so only the hane remains for Black ] ;W[qc]C[Scribe [-\]: this hane is the focal point of today's lecture ] ;B[rd]C[yithril [1k\]: r18? ImNoSensei [-\]: quite a few linconnu [2k\]: r18 hansb [1k?\]: R18? ] (;W[pf] ;B[re]C[Scribe [-\]: black got large solid corner ] ;W[rf] (;B[qb]C[Javaness [1d\]: ok ] ;W[qi] ;B[ok] ;W[mk] ;B[oi] ;W[pj] ;B[oj] ;W[pk] ;B[pl] ;W[qj] ;B[on] ;W[pm] ;B[ol] ;W[rl] ;B[qm] ;W[rm] ;B[ql] ;W[rk] ;B[qn] ;W[rn] ;B[oo] ;W[gq] ;B[ck] ;W[ci] (;B[cn] (;W[cp]SQ[dp][gq]C[Scribe [-\]: lower left: white: kick or extend ? ] ;B[iq]C[Vanya [3k\]: e3 Scribe [-\]: after j3 white corner vulnerable Scribe [-\]: no question Scribe [-\]: thought you were going to test us on this ;) Scribe [-\]: kick is poor in lower left due to black c9 being on board already maltar [4k\]: g5 celotaped [5k\]: f4 yithril [1k\]: e3 Javaness [1d\]: white needs e6 manye hansb [1k?\]: E2? gomasch [2d\]: 3e Vanya [3k\]: e3 Sufferboy [5k\]: E3 jcbrookly1 [?\]: e6 Zelda23 [6k\]: D6 yithril [1k\]: e3 yithril [1k\]: then w f4 hansb [1k?\]: can white avoid the terrible squeeze by playing D3 iso D2? ] (;W[ho] (;B[ek] ;W[jd] ;B[id] ;W[je] ;B[qg] ;W[qf] ;B[of] ;W[og] ;B[ng] ;W[pg] ;B[nh] ;W[md] ;B[ne] ;W[jh] ;B[jj] ;W[jp] ;B[eq] ;W[en] ;B[ip] ;W[gp] ;B[io] ;W[in] ;B[jn] ;W[jm] ;B[hn] ;W[im] ;B[gn] ;W[hp] ;B[hr] ;W[gm] ;B[hm] ;W[hl] ;B[fm] ;W[fn] ;B[gl] ;W[go] ;B[gm] ;W[gk] ;B[hk]C[London Open 2006 Round 2 Wang-zi (black) vs Tim Hunt 3D B+R]) (;B[eq])) (;W[]TR[cp][dp][gq]C[Scribe [-\]: black g4 is thankyou move Asumi [5d?\]: happen* yithril [1k\]: what about f4? linconnu [2k\]: g5 Wolf84 [8k\]: g5 ? Scribe [-\]: white must defend hansb [1k?\]: G5? Vanya [3k\]: g5 ] (;B[eq]C[MRei [1d\]: f3? yithril [1k\]: what if f4? ImNoSensei [-\]: iso = instead of hansb [1k?\]: remember the terrible squeezE? Javaness [1d\]: :) ] (;W[ep] ;B[fq]C[yithril [1k\]: what about f4? MRei [1d\]: what if w f4? after e3? ] (;W[fp]C[Scribe [-\]: vital point of white lower left is e3 ] ;B[gr]C[Scribe [-\]: black is out yithril [1k\]: for w ]) (;W[gp]C[Vanya [3k\]: push Javaness [1d\]: there is a cut agui [4k\]: F4 ] ;B[fp] ;W[fo]LB[eo:2][go:1]C[Scribe [-\]: f2 very good move, g2 also good ] (;B[go]C[kiyosumi [2d\]: extend down Kamisama [5k\]: f2 LPDavid [6k\]: C2 Javaness [1d\]: G2 yithril [1k\]: g2? Vanya [3k\]: g2 ] (;W[fr]) (;W[gr])) (;B[gr] ;W[hr] ;B[fr]C[hansb [1k?\]: yes ] ;W[hq]C[Vanya [3k\]: j2 yithril [1k\]: g2? agui [4k\]: G5 yithril [1k\]: c2 i mean hansb [1k?\]: cut Javaness [1d\]: c2 ] (;B[cr]C[Kamisama [5k\]: damn have to eat, cya Scribe [-\]: c2 lives, not bad at all Scribe [-\]: but there is better ] (;W[en]) (;W[br] ;B[dr] ;W[en] ;B[ek] (;W[ip]) (;W[bq] ;B[es] ;W[ip]))) (;B[go] ;W[ho] ;B[gn] (;W[dr] ;B[ir] ;W[hs] ;B[ip] ;W[hp]C[yithril [1k\]: oh ] ;B[in] ;W[dq]C[yithril [1k\]: make big center ] ;B[hn]C[Javaness [1d\]: :< ] ;W[er] ;B[eo] ;W[fn] ;B[fm] ;W[en] ;B[em] ;W[dn] ;B[dm] ;W[do] ;B[io] ;W[fs]C[Javaness [1d\]: black gets all center Dakre [2d?\]: nice :) lucifex [6k\]: painful for white Vanya [3k\]: more than simply nice Scribe [-\]: black trades five inside stones for very powerful stones in center shindou01 [9k\]: poor white Asumi [5d?\]: sacrifices happent, intentional or unintentionl :) ]) (;W[dq]C[Javaness [1d\]: but here white played D2 hansb [1k?\]: yes! ] ;B[dr] ;W[cr]C[shindou01 [9k\]: this reminds me of when white gets poor ] ;B[ip]C[Scribe [-\]: backu up three moves, then d2 in place of d3 hansb [1k?\]: othanks ]))))) (;W[dq]C[hansb [1k?\]: F3 Dakre [2d?\]: f3? agui [4k\]: F3 ] (;B[fq]C[speaking1 [7k\]: heavy Scribe [-\]: if e4, black got hit on the head at e5 and everything just got worse ] ;W[gp] ;B[gr] ;W[hr] ;B[eo]) (;B[ep]TR[dp][ep][dq][eq] ;W[eo] ;B[fp] ;W[er] ;B[fr] ;W[dr] ;B[fq]C[Asumi [5d?\]: B makes empty triangle ])) (;W[fp]C[yithril [1k\]: yes Scribe [-\]: Three items from this game: 1. dont push from behind (lower right) 2. joseki choice in light of black j17 and r9 (upper right), 3. corner defense (lower left) ] (;B[gr]) (;B[ep] ;W[eo] ;B[er]C[nicat [2k\]: b3 first ] ;W[gr] ;B[bq]C[Grindel [9k\]: f4 leaves too much space for black ])) (;W[dr]C[hansb [1k?\]: rno later ])) (;B[fp] ;W[fq]) (;B[go]C[Scribe [-\]: balck f3 is thankyou move ] ;W[fp])) (;W[go]TR[ck][cn]C[lucifex [6k\]: f5 Scribe [-\]: g5 very good defense shindou01 [9k\]: are they weakend ? Scribe [-\]: the only move after black e3 invasion of g5 is f3 Javaness [1d\]: is black E6 sente? ] (;B[eq]C[Scribe [-\]: h5 does not prevent e3 invasion Javaness [1d\]: F4 Vanya [3k\]: f4 MRei [1d\]: f4? ] (;W[fp] ;B[bq] ;W[bp] ;B[fr] ;W[gr] ;B[cr]C[Javaness [1d\]: oh oh ]) (;W[ep]C[shindou01 [9k\]: black can live ] ;B[fq]C[Scribe [-\]: very difficult for white to find the right path after e3 ] ;W[gp] ;B[gr] ;W[hr] ;B[fr] ;W[hq] ;B[cr]) (;W[fq] (;B[eo]) (;B[ep] ;W[eo] ;B[fp] ;W[gp] ;B[er] ;W[dq]))) (;B[en]C[Javaness [1d\]: i mean, does it threaten e3 again Javaness [1d\]: yes ] ;W[dm] ;B[dn] (;W[hr]) (;W[hq]C[Scribe [-\]: white defense ] ;B[ip])) (;B[fp]C[yithril [1k\]: no yithril [1k\]: after b e3 ]))) (;W[co] ;B[dn]TR[ck]C[Scribe [-\]: yes ])) (;AE[ck] ;B[cn] ;W[co] ;B[dn] ;W[dl]C[Scribe [-\]: kick is poor in lower left due to black c9 being on board already ] ;B[fn] ;W[eo] ;B[en] ;W[go]C[Scribe [-\]: yes ])) (;B[qg] ;W[qf] ;B[qb]C[Scribe [-\]: white shape is deficient ])) (;W[qb]C[ImNoSensei [-\]: R18 MRei [1d\]: r18 Javaness [1d\]: just a game review from london open ] ;B[re]LB[pf:B][qf:A]C[kiyosumi [2d\]: extend Walas [3k\]: r14 linconnu [2k\]: q14 yithril [1k\]: q14 Creslin [5k\]: R14 ladder is good MRei [1d\]: r14 Javaness [1d\]: R14 ImNoSensei [-\]: W has ladder, R14 possible kiyosumi [2d\]: q14 hansb [1k?\]: Q14 celotaped [5k\]: q14 linconnu [2k\]: o17 MRei [1d\]: yeah ladder is good gomasch [2d\]: q14? ImNoSensei [-\]: interesting ] (;W[qf]C[mingyaod [4k\]: small avalanche Scribe [-\]: white is at a loss to continue...due to black j17 stone Kyoushu [11k\]: oh ok ] ;B[ne] ;W[of]C[ImNoSensei [-\]: R14 better for attack maybe ] ;B[pb] ;W[nc] ;B[nb] ;W[mc] ;B[rb] ;W[mb] ;B[oa]LB[mc:1][of:2]TR[ic]C[Kyoushu [11k\]: pardon me, what is this lesson about? Kyoushu [11k\]: I just joined ]) (;W[pf]C[yithril [1k\]: p14 MRei [1d\]: r14 ImNoSensei [-\]: p14 seems good Kamisama [5k\]: q18 or r14 hansb [1k?\]: P14 ] (;B[qf] ;W[nc] ;B[pe]C[Scribe [-\]: white gets more territory ] ;W[oe] ;B[of] ;W[ne] ;B[pg] ;W[md]C[Scribe [-\]: joseki ]) (;B[of] ;W[pg]C[Scribe [-\]: better yet fro black ] ;B[ne] ;W[pe] ;B[pb] ;W[nc] ;B[nb] ;W[mc] ;B[rb] ;W[mb] ;B[oa]C[ImNoSensei [-\]: B can't P11 :< Scribe [-\]: white at a loss for continuation due to blakc j17 and black r9 ])))) (;B[nc]TR[ic][nc]C[szzzq [-\]: a erikk [-\]: s16 MRei [1d\]: s16 q14 ] ;W[rd] ;B[qc] ;W[qh]C[Scribe [-\]: after the extension by black at o17, the black top is too low Scribe [-\]: white gets attack on r9 ]) (;B[qc] ;W[nd] (;B[mc] ;W[qi]) (;B[qh] ;W[nc]C[Scribe [-\]: connection at r17 results in black being too low on top ] ;B[re] ;W[qf] ;B[rf]C[Kamisama [5k\]: whites goal to reduce is a success ]))) (;W[nc]C[clemi [?\]: Q16 ] ;B[pc] ;W[nd] ;B[pf] ;W[kc]LB[lc:2][mc:1]TR[jc][nc][nd]C[Asumi [5d?\]: B happy Scribe [-\]: white is overconcentrated ]) (;W[nd]C[Asumi [5d?\]: Is there a better move than P16??? hansb [1k?\]: yes ] (;B[pd]C[Scribe [-\]: draw back rather than extend ] ;W[nc] ;B[ob] ;W[og] ;B[qg]LB[ic:E][qi:A][qk:B][no:D][op:C]C[Scribe [-\]: black corner is large celotaped [5k\]: go seigen move Scribe [-\]: black right side is good Scribe [-\]: white pushing on bottom is still bad ] ;W[] ;B[mg]C[hansb [1k?\]: thanks Scribe [-\]: severe attack shindou01 [9k\]: what about the left side ? ]) (;B[pc]C[Plunder [4k\]: audio gone ] ;W[qe]C[Scribe [-\]: q17 black error here ]))) (;AW[qd]) (;AE[qd]AW[pd]C[gomasch [2d\]: where? ] ;W[qi]TR[no][op]C[gomasch [2d\]: ah ] ;B[ok] ;W[oi]) (;W[fq]C[gomasch [2d\]: top right is urgent MRei [1d\]: m3 is low ]) (;W[] ;B[pf]C[Scribe [-\]: at this time the upper right is the focal point of the game Scribe [-\]: blakc very happy ImNoSensei [-\]: is P17 a bad answer by B, leaving W with an attack that justifies O5 ? ])) (;W[rr]C[Asumi [5d?\]: Edo period joseki ;) linconnu [2k\]: no lucifex [6k\]: no baian [1d\]: no hansb [1k?\]: not necessary yithril [1k\]: no its kind of slow ImNoSensei [-\]: W has N4 ? Asumi [5d?\]: small hansb [1k?\]: miai with R7 MRei [1d\]: s7 can settle ]) (;W[od] (;B[rr] ;W[qm]) (;B[qm] ;W[rr])) (;W[jq]C[Scribe [-\]: p4 push makes black too strong on the bottom ]) (;AE[qd]AW[pd] ;W[qi] ;B[no] (;W[qm] ;B[ol]) (;W[on] ;B[ok]))) (;B[kc]C[Scribe [-\]: another option....more modern Scribe [-\]: mini chinese ] (;W[qj]) (;W[po]) (;W[qn] ;B[ql] ;W[on]C[Asumi [5d?\]: P6 Luo XiHe move ]))) (;W[od] ;B[oc] ;W[nc] ;B[pc] ;W[nd] ;B[qf] ;W[jc] ;B[hc] ;W[] ;B[lc] ;W[kd] ;B[ld] ;W[le]C[yithril [1k\]: m18 hansb [1k?\]: M18 ] ;B[lb]C[Grindel [9k\]: m18 agui [4k\]: M18 Scribe [-\]: m18 is only move fro balck ])) (;B[pd] ;W[dp] ;B[pq] ;W[dd] ;B[qk] ;W[nc] ;B[pf] ;W[jd] ;B[fq] ;W[cn] ;B[jp] ;W[po] (;B[np]) (;B[qp]) (;B[qo]C[gomasch [2d\]: ok ] ;W[pp] ;B[qp]C[shindou01 [9k\]: who is strongest of Tim Hunt or Wang-zi ? ] ;W[oq] ;B[pn]C[shindou01 [9k\]: and what is their rank ` ] (;W[qq] ;B[pr] ;W[rq] ;B[or] ;W[np] ;B[no] ;W[mp] ;B[on] ;W[op] ;B[rp] ;W[qn] ;B[rn] ;W[qm] ;B[rr] ;W[rm]C[gomasch [2d\]: can white can white play o2? ] ;B[qr]TR[qk][jp]C[gomasch [2d\]: instead of n4? yithril [1k\]: no yithril [1k\]: w would die gomasch ]) (;W[pr]C[Asumi [5d?\]: as a japanese pro said on WAGC to one player: Excellently played, but wrong joseki ] ;B[qq] ;W[lq]C[ImNoSensei [-\]: lol ]))) (;AB[dd][pd][dp][pp]C[splice [8k\]: Is Guo Wang-zi related to Guo Juan? I think he lives in Amsterdam as well.. :) Javaness [1d\]: it's her son :) splice [8k\]: aaahh Javaness [1d\]: he is very nice guy Scribe [-\]: imagine having a professional teacher for as your mother ! splice [8k\]: he 4d KGS now, that's very strong ImNoSensei [-\]: I do, but sadly she is an english teacher ;) splice [8k\]: compared to me Scribe [-\]: momma, what should i have done here ? splice [8k\]: heh splice [8k\]: that's nice sprang [-\]: terrific! ] ;B[]C[Scribe [-\]: read the story of kita fumiko in Nakayama's The Treasure Chest Enigma Grindel [9k\]: with more stones it is better to attack ] ;W[nq]C[Grindel [9k\]: o4 hansb [1k?\]: pincer Vanya [3k\]: q6 Idn [1k\]: q6 LPDavid [6k\]: pincer Creslin [5k\]: K4 or O4 ruger [6k\]: Q6 ImNoSensei [-\]: K4 (personal favorite) yithril [1k\]: m3 MysticoN [3d\]: q6 maltar [4k\]: m3 ] (;B[lq]C[Asumi [5d?\]: I'd play K4 clemi [?\]: a pincer at least ]) (;B[kp]C[ImNoSensei [-\]: *high fives asumi* ]) (;B[pn]C[Asumi [5d?\]: suggestion: never try to attak and kill a pro lucifex [6k\]: lol ] (;W[pr] ;B[qq] ;W[kq]C[Asumi [5d?\]: attack* ]) (;W[fq] (;B[jp]C[sprang [-\]: lol!! ImNoSensei [-\]: good philosophy Scribe [-\]: attack white, keep white busy and small, then win Asumi [5d?\]: divide and counquer!!!!!!!! shindou01 [9k\]: why not J 4 ImNoSensei [-\]: w's goal to make territory and reduce what B builds on outside in handicap game ? Asumi [5d?\]: W relies on B's panic ImNoSensei [-\]: (possible strategy anyway) sprang [-\]: thanks Asumi [5d?\]: take away B's few ideas, and he's too worried to think properly kiyosumi [2d\]: thx lucifex [6k\]: thanks so much! Creslin [5k\]: Thank you Grindel [9k\]: thank you Ogronom [5k\]: thx MysticoN [3d\]: thx maltar [4k\]: thank you Zelda23 [6k\]: thank you! Walas [3k\]: thanks ruger [6k\]: thank you hansb [1k?\]: thanks Scribe [-\]: Xiexie Guo Juan Laoshi hansili [3k\]: thank you very much Inui [8k\]: thank you :) Vanya [3k\]: thank you for the lecture LPDavid [6k\]: Thank you very much ImNoSensei [-\]: xie xie Laoshi Cutrone [5k\]: ☺ MRei [1d\]: thank you agui [4k\]: Thank you very much gomasch [2d\]: thank you Bodo212 [8k\]: thanks very much wsstadium2 [5k\]: thx mingyaod [4k\]: thank you Sufferboy [5k\]: thanks Asumi [5d?\]: Thank You laoshi zeko [8k\]: Thank you very much! zzz [2k\]: thanks oathofall [12k\]: thx too Scribe [-\]: Thanks to the Ing Goe Foundation sufi [6k?\]: thank you Teacher BigElefant [10k\]: thanks linconnu [2k\]: thanks Idn [1k\]: Thank you very much !! Cornelius [2k\]: thx! ] ;W[cn]C[shindou01 [9k\]: hey ] ;B[fp]C[shindou01 [9k\]: why not j 4 ] ;W[gp] ;B[fo] ;W[cq] ;B[eq] ;W[cp] ;B[go]C[shindou01 [9k\]: instead of k4 ] ;W[qq] ;B[pq] ;W[pr] ;B[or] ;W[qr] ;B[oq] ;W[ro] ;B[np]TR[pn][fo][go][jp][np]C[Scribe [-\]: white gets corner but three stones are very weak compared to black Asumi [5d?\]: give all 4 corners, so W will resign ^_^ ]) (;B[cn] ;W[jp]C[Scribe [-\]: black is too passive ])))))