(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[NZ]SZ[19]KM[7.00]TM[3600]OT[25/600 Canadian]
DT[2006-11-19]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[icebucket [10k\]: Morning mingJiu
grumpfl [7k\]: hi
Gotan [8k\]: hi
velobici [5k?\]: Nihao Jiang Laoshi
bimsbrom [7k\]: ni hao
thoel [?\]: yes
icebucket [10k\]: loud and clear
grumpfl [7k\]: yes
baitem [7k\]: yes
tibra [6k\]: yes
xix [10k?\]: hi
thoel [?\]: ready
Scribe [-\]: Yes please
icebucket [10k\]: resounding YES
coolkid444 [11k\]: hi
xix [10k?\]: yes
icebucket [10k\]: wait need coffe
etl3 [?\]: I have one
etl3 [?\]: One joseki
icebucket [10k\]: :) u didn't get to ask last week.
etl3 [?\]: Instead of extend?
]
(;B[qd]C[Scribe [-\]: undercuts the lower left corner position
]
;W[od]
;B[mc]
(;W[qc]LB[pc:A][rc:B][pd:C]C[agui [4k\]: Hello
icebucket [10k\]: [mingjiu 7p\]:  talk about Joseki
]
(;B[pc]
;W[pd]
;B[oc]
;W[nc]LB[nb:A][nd:B]C[icebucket [10k\]: [mingjiu 7p\]: after W R17, black got ABC,  Q17 common
]
(;B[nd]
;W[nb]
;B[qb]C[Scribe [-\]: black atari at o16 to take top and better position relative to the left corner
]
;W[rc]
;B[ob]
(;W[qe]
;B[mb]
;W[ne]
;B[md])
(;W[mb]C[icebucket [10k\]: [mingjiu 7p\]: WHere is ladder?
icebucket [10k\]: [mingjiu 7p\]: white here need to check ladder also. If it is not good.  There goes the game
]
(;B[md]
;W[oa]
;B[pb]
;W[rb]
;B[pe]
;W[oe]
;B[of]
;W[ne]LB[me:A][nf:B]C[icebucket [10k\]: [mingjiu 7p\]:  black need to check ladder A,B
])
(;B[qe]
;W[pf]
;B[rb]
;W[oa]
;B[pb]
;W[lc]
;B[pe]C[icebucket [10k\]: Ok we have scribe. :D U take over
]
;W[oe]
;B[of]C[Scribe [-\]: continuation when ladder is not good for black
]
;W[ne]
;B[nf]
;W[me]
;B[pg]
;W[mf]C[icebucket [10k\]: [mingjiu 7p\]: this is joseki
Scribe [-\]: also joseki
pel [4k\]: still ok for black, right?
])))
(;B[nb]
;W[qe]C[Scribe [-\]: n18 requires the ladder to work for white
]
(;B[rd]
;W[nd]C[Scribe [-\]: black atari at o18 to take top
]
;B[pb]
;W[md]
;B[lc]
;W[re]
;B[rc]
;W[qj])
(;B[nd]
;W[rd]))
(;B[qb]C[Scribe [-\]: trick mote
]
(;W[rc]C[Dakre [2d\]: but black has one more move at the top
]
;B[nb]
(;W[qe]
;B[nd]C[Scribe [-\]: good for black
]
;W[]
;B[dq]
;W[do]
;B[cm]
;W[cq]
;B[cp]
;W[dp]
;B[co]
;W[cn]
;B[bn]
;W[eq]
;B[dn]
;W[dr]LB[lg:A][gn:B]C[Scribe [-\]: white shape in lower left is better than in upper right
Scribe [-\]: aji remains in lower left
])
(;W[nd]
;B[qe]
;W[mb]
;B[ob]
;W[lc]
;B[rb]
;W[]C[Scribe [-\]: good for black
]
;B[dq]
;W[do]
;B[cm]
;W[cq]
;B[cp]
;W[dp]
;B[co]
;W[cn]
;B[bn]
;W[eq]
;B[dr]LB[eq:A]
;W[dn]
;B[bp]
;W[dm]
;B[cl]
;W[er]
;B[cr]
;W[jq]LB[lf:A][gn:B]C[Scribe [-\]: again lower left is better for white than the top right
thoel [?\]: yes
agui [4k\]: yes thanks
]))
(;W[nb]
(;B[nd]
;W[rc]
;B[ob])
(;B[rc]
;W[md]
;B[qf]
;W[ic]C[Scribe [-\]: good for white
]
;B[dq]
;W[do]
;B[co]
;W[cn]
;B[cp]
;W[dm]
;B[fq]
;W[ci]
;B[cm]
;W[bn]C[digikid [7k\]: I thought there's a retype?
icebucket [10k\]: Scribe is doing it
Scribe [-\]: b6 is ver bad for black
digikid [7k\]: I See, thanks
]))))
(;B[]
;W[kc]C[digikid [7k\]: Doesn't make sense
icebucket [10k\]: same joseki?
agui [4k\]: for white
Templar [6k?\]: bad for both
icebucket [10k\]: 1 sec let me read
snowblind [2k\]: good for b
Yippie [1k\]: w has a move more so he must get better result
icebucket [10k\]: g for W I think
Ryoji [4k\]: well, it is 3 vs 2
]))
(;W[kc]
;B[]
;W[qc]
;B[pc]))
(;B[pd]
;W[cp]
;B[pq]
;W[dc]
;B[ep]
;W[po]
;B[pl]
;W[mp]
;B[oo]
;W[on]
;B[no]
;W[pp]
;B[nq]
;W[qq]
;B[oq]
;W[nn]
;B[mo]
;W[qr]C[Scribe [-\]: ladder is good for white
bimsbrom [7k\]: which ladder?
yithril [2k\]: its complicated ;)
icebucket [10k\]: (<.<) don't see one
shodan2b [10k?\]: me either
shodan2b [10k?\]: >.<
Vanya [4k?\]: after q6 
yithril [2k\]: b q6 cut and there will be a long sequence to a ladder
icebucket [10k\]: OP 6!
Dakre [2d\]: the ladder whcih results in the cut of black at q6
shodan2b [10k?\]: aww
shodan2b [10k?\]: hi
icebucket [10k\]: Yes!
yithril [2k\]: yes
bimsbrom [7k\]: yes
pel [4k\]: welcome back
Vanya [4k?\]: yes
xushibagua [7k\]: yep
celotaped [6k\]: yes
icebucket [10k\]: welcome back.
icebucket [10k\]: ya some weather problem in S.F
]
(;B[pn]
;W[pm]
;B[qn]
;W[qm]C[shodan2b [10k?\]: OH
]
;B[ro]
;W[qo]
;B[rn]
;W[rm]
;B[rp]
;W[qp]
;B[rq]
;W[rr]
;B[om]
(;W[rk]
;B[qk]
;W[rl]
(;B[nm]C[icebucket [10k\]: ack!!!!
])
(;B[ml]C[snowblind [2k\]: n7?
]
(;W[mm]
;B[nm]
;W[mn]
(;B[ln])
(;B[lm]
;W[ln]
;B[kn]
;W[lo]TR[mp]))
(;W[nm]
;B[ol]C[Scribe [-\]: white dies on outside
])))
(;W[nm]
;B[ol]
;W[rk]
;B[ml]C[celotaped [6k\]: net :)
icebucket [10k\]: broken ladder
Scribe [-\]: again white dead on outside
]))
(;B[de]
;W[qn]
;B[cq]C[icebucket [10k\]: awww.. black in trouble.
]
;W[gq]
(;B[iq]C[icebucket [10k\]: This is the joseki !
Scribe [-\]: j3 combination pincer and extension
icebucket [10k\]: well..  can we seal back inside the corner with D4?
icebucket [10k\]: This looks quite promising for B. 
thoel [?\]: white could capture w at F3
butterdish: they invent new joseki - they will be famous!
]
(;W[dq]C[agui [4k\]: B3
]
;B[dp]
;W[eq]
;B[fq]C[Scribe [-\]: ??
icebucket [10k\]: nope. 
agui [4k\]: what if white B3 at the begin of joseki
]
(;W[fp]
;B[fr]
;W[cr]
;B[bq]C[Scribe [-\]: whose game please ?
]
;W[er]
;B[gr]
(;W[co]
;B[dn]
;W[br]
;B[es]
;W[dr]
;B[cn]LB[hq:B][iq:A]C[icebucket [10k\]: good for B
seidelin [3k\]: black super strong outside
agui [4k\]: white seems lost
snowblind [2k\]: good for B
Zark [1d\]: great for black
Scribe [-\]: white gets sealed in the corner.  corner is not large enough to compensate.
Inuikun [2k\]: p3 works well
]
;W[gp]
;B[hq]C[agui [4k\]: instead of D3
Scribe [-\]: very very good for black
])
(;W[gp]
;B[hq]
;W[do]C[Scribe [-\]: white outside atari at f4 is wrong direction of play.  the ladder is good fro black
]))
(;W[fr]LB[iq:A]C[Scribe [-\]: resulit is good for whtie
shodan2b [10k?\]: nope
]
(;B[fp]
;W[co]
;B[gr]
;W[er]
;B[gp]
;W[cr]C[Scribe [-\]: correct direction of play by white, the inside atari at f2
])
(;B[co]
(;W[bp]
;B[fp]
;W[dr]
;B[gp]C[Scribe [-\]: hmmm...right side still open skirt'ed
]
;W[hq]C[icebucket [10k\]: This is better no? for B?
]
;B[hp])
(;W[fp]
;B[bp]C[icebucket [10k\]: normal joseki.
Scribe [-\]: it has no fears
]
;W[kp]C[icebucket [10k\]: W sente. problem with J3
agui [4k\]: better for white
]
(;B[io]C[icebucket [10k\]: :) thx!!!
]
(;W[jq]
;B[ir]
;W[kn]C[Scribe [-\]: L4 attacks black and splits
])
(;W[kn]TR[fp][dq][eq][gq][fr]C[Scribe [-\]: white e3 group is very strong
]))
(;B[kr]
;W[ip]TR[qn]
;B[mn]C[Scribe [-\]: j4 move makes white shape very strong
])))))
(;W[go]
;B[dp]LB[go:B][iq:A][jq:C]C[Scribe [-\]: white jump is slack
Scribe [-\]: white should have played at k3
]))
(;B[dp]
;W[jq]
;B[co]LB[lq:A]TR[mo][no][oo][nq][oq][pq]C[Scribe [-\]: still hard for white to attack the six black stones
]
;W[lq]
;B[ko]TR[co][dp][ep][cq]C[Scribe [-\]: black m3 would create enough eyespace
Scribe [-\]: black L5 runs easily
Scribe [-\]: plus black has big corner in lower left
])))
(;B[pp]
;W[nq]
;B[nr]C[yithril [2k\]: haha
yithril [2k\]: trick
etl3 [?\]: Strong player played this against me
seku [3k\]: in kogos, i think
etl3 [?\]: I don't know this one
Scribe [-\]: white can not pull back at n3
]
(;W[mq])
(;W[oq]C[Scribe [-\]: white must consider p3 and p2
]
(;B[pq]
;W[or]
;B[pr]
(;W[kq]
;B[qm]C[etl3 [?\]: I don't like white
gomasch [2d\]: ok for black
Zark [1d\]: black
Templar [6k?\]: I like black
agui [4k\]: even
]
;W[dp]
;B[dd]
;W[fc]
;B[cg]
;W[ic]TR[fc][ic][dd][cg]C[etl3 [?\]: even
Inuikun [2k\]: white
Kevintju [7k?\]: white
yithril [2k\]: w
snowblind [2k\]: white can invade in upper left
Scribe [-\]: compare lower right with top left
JamesJoker [3k\]: i like black
shindou01 [13k\]: black maybe
]
;B[dc]C[etl3 [?\]: good move
hansb [1k\]: good move
]
;W[eb]
;B[db]
;W[]
;B[fb]
;W[ec]LB[fb:A][ec:B]TR[qm][pp][kq][nq][oq][pq][or][pr]C[etl3 [?\]: no
etl3 [?\]: yes
etl3 [?\]: oh, ok.
Scribe [-\]: lower right result is okay for white
JamesJoker [3k\]: black
Scribe [-\]: its as if black played f18 in exchange for e17
etl3 [?\]: good for black
gomasch [2d\]: good for black
Vanya [4k?\]: for white
vondutch [2k\]: ok for both
icebucket [10k\]: B
hikaru834 [14k\]: b
agui [4k\]: for white
vondutch [2k\]: white a little better
icebucket [10k\]: b can still escape via E19
seku [3k\]: is sound working for others?
agui [4k\]: black loses aji
etl3 [?\]: I can't hear mingjiu, is he talking?
Vanya [4k?\]: w became more solid 
gomasch [2d\]: white would rather g18 than E17
coolkid444 [11k\]: no sound
coolkid444 [11k\]: ?
agui [4k\]: no sound
thoel [?\]: white would be better at G18, so this is good for black
pel [4k\]: mingjiu prolly fell off again :/
tablescrap [4k?\]: seems
shodan2b [10k?\]: ...
shodan2b [10k?\]: hi
etl3 [?\]: hello
coolkid444 [11k\]: hiya
Celso [5k\]: ok
icebucket [10k\]: welcome back
Vanya [4k?\]: hello
etl3 [?\]: good exchange for black
hikaru834 [14k\]: i like b more
gomasch [2d\]: b gained a bit
Vanya [4k?\]: black lost aji
]
;B[]
(;W[da]
;B[ca]
;W[ea]
;B[bb]
;W[fe]TR[ca][da][ea][bb][db][eb][dc][ec][fc][ic][dd][fe][cg]C[etl3 [?\]: yes
shodan2b [10k?\]: yeah
icebucket [10k\]: no.
etl3 [?\]: right
Scribe [-\]: black lost a lot
etl3 [?\]: I like white
hikaru834 [14k\]: that is better for w
icebucket [10k\]: If black has sente is different.
etl3 [?\]: white
thoel [?\]: white
Vanya [4k?\]: white
Kevintju [7k?\]: white
agui [4k\]: white
])
(;W[]TR[qm][pp][kq][nq][oq][pq][or][pr]C[etl3 [?\]: ah, ok.
etl3 [?\]: ok.
etl3 [?\]: yes
vondutch [2k\]: yes
etl3 [?\]: what if white hane?
]
;B[pd]C[etl3 [?\]: I see
]
;W[nc]
(;B[qf]
;W[pb]
;B[qc]
;W[kc])
(;B[pf]
;W[pb]
;B[qc]
;W[kc]
;B[qj]C[shindou01 [13k\]: black good
icebucket [10k\]: R12 still open
])))
(;W[dp]
;B[]
;W[qm]C[etl3 [?\]: ok
celotaped [6k\]: :)
playmore [3d\]: r6 not good?
vondutch [2k\]: I want it all :)
Vanya [4k?\]: very sharp
]))
(;B[or]
;W[pq]
;B[qq]
;W[pr]))
(;W[or]
;B[oq]
(;W[mr]
;B[np]
;W[mq]
;B[pr]
;W[ns]C[etl3 [?\]: yes
]
;B[mp]C[etl3 [?\]: bad for white
Scribe [-\]: black tricked white
yithril [2k\]: b is good
]
;W[]
;B[dd]
;W[fc]
;B[fd]
;W[gd]
;B[fe]C[etl3 [?\]: extend or cut
]
;W[ec]
;B[dc]C[etl3 [?\]: yes
]
;W[]
;B[pd]
;W[nc]
;B[oc]C[etl3 [?\]: extend up
]
(;W[nd])
(;W[ob]C[etl3 [?\]: no
]
;B[nd]
;W[mc]
;B[pb]
;W[mb]
;B[nb]
;W[na]LB[oc:A][nd:B]))
(;W[pr]
;B[mr]
;W[qp]
;B[qo]
;W[rp]C[Scribe [-\]: a possible variation for white, much better than before
]
(;B[ro]
;W[op])
(;B[np]
;W[pq]C[etl3 [?\]: Yes
icebucket [10k\]: ok
etl3 [?\]: Thank you
agui [4k\]: yes
seku [3k\]: yes
Vanya [4k?\]: yes, thanks
vondutch [2k\]: yes
]
(;B[op])
(;B[mq]
;W[po])))))
(;B[qb]
;W[pb]
(;B[sb]
;W[pd]
;B[rd]
;W[ob]C[icebucket [10k\]: Yes I think os
]
;B[se]C[Scribe [-\]: Homework !
]
;W[qe]C[etl3 [?\]: homework
]
;AW[pf][rf][sf]C[etl3 [?\]: We did this one
])
(;AW[ob][pd][qe][pf][rf][sf]AB[rb][rd][se]LB[rb:A][rc:B]C[icebucket [10k\]: How many way to kill B.
etl3 [?\]: R17, not S18
etl3 [?\]: No S18 stone
thoel [?\]: this is new
etl3 [?\]: Black has a stone at R17
etl3 [?\]: instead
etl3 [?\]: no
etl3 [?\]: At R17
butterdish: left of B
])
(;B[qc]C[etl3 [?\]: haha
]
;W[ob]
;B[rd]
;W[pd]
;B[se]C[etl3 [?\]: many different ones
]
;W[qe]
;AW[pf][rf][sf]C[etl3 [?\]: yes
Scribe [-\]: Homework !
butterdish: 3 ways I think
Scribe [-\]: How many ways ?
etl3 [?\]: I found alot of ways to ko, only 1 way to kill though
butterdish: (+4 ways to get ko)
]
;B[]C[Kevintju [7k?\]: lol
Eve [3k\]: :)
butterdish: s18
butterdish:  and s19
Zebigbos [?\]: t18
]
(;W[re]
;B[sd]C[etl3 [?\]: yes
]
;W[qa]C[Scribe [-\]: dead
]
;B[ra]
;W[sb]C[Scribe [-\]: daed
Scribe [-\]: dedad
])
(;W[rb]
;B[ra]
;W[sb])
(;W[ra]
;B[qa]
;W[rb]C[etl3 [?\]: wow, I missed alot
])
(;W[sb]
;B[sc]
;W[rb]
;B[re]C[Scribe [-\]: lived
]
;W[rc]C[Scribe [-\]: KO!
])
(;W[sc]
;B[sb])
(;W[qa]
;B[ra]
;W[rb]
(;B[pa]
;W[sb])
(;B[sb])))
(;B[rd]
;W[ob]
;B[se]
;W[pd]C[etl3 [?\]: yes
]
(;B[qc])
(;B[qa]
;W[qe]
;AW[pf][rf][sf]C[etl3 [?\]: haha
Scribe [-\]: White to play
Scribe [-\]: How many way to attack ?
vondutch [2k\]: Thank you
etl3 [?\]: thank you
Winters [5k\]: thanks
Kevintju [7k?\]: thank you very much
seidelin [3k\]: thanks
seku [3k\]: thank you for the lesson
butterdish: thanks for lesson
au2 [1d\]: Thank you
agui [4k\]: Thank you very much !
Sonni [3k\]: thank you
pel [4k\]: thanks
guest110 [?\]: thx
thoel [?\]: thank you
Vanya [4k?\]: thank you for the lecture
CLB [9k\]: thanks
reed338 [-\]: thx 
guojuan [5p\]: I am here :)
hansili [4k\]: thank you!!
au2 [1d\]: THANKS TO ING FOUNDATION
Ender [7k\]: thxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
au2 [1d\]: bye bye
agui [4k\]: bye
thoel [?\]: bye
LordRahl [6k\]: xie xie
Scribe [-\]: Xiexie Mingjiu
Vanya [4k?\]: bye
Inuikun [2k\]: bye
butterdish: bye bye
Scribe [-\]: Thanks to the Ing Goe Foundation
Zark [1d\]: thanks
Ender [7k\]: what does xie xie means?
Dakre [2d\]: thanks :)(
Dakre [2d\]: bye
]))))