(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[1800]
PW[mingjiu]PB[mingjiu]WR[7p]BR[7p]DT[2006-02-19]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[wrong [?\]: ni hao lao shi
Bodo212 [15k\]: hello
oeillet [9k?\]: hello
Conch [12k\]: hello
ljl [13k\]: hello
Soul [6k\]: Hi! :)
Firzen [16k\]: hi
gertzu [-\]: hi
wholeboard [7k\]: hi
fryskenfry [18k\]: hello
murky: Hi LaoShi NiHao
Pnin [?\]: hello
Ophelia [14k?\]: hello
ALl [3k?\]: nin hao
oeillet [9k?\]: fine
Ophelia [14k?\]: yes I can hear you.
Pnin [?\]: yes
Ciovo [8k\]: loud and clear
Bodo212 [15k\]: clear
nux [14k\]: yes
VorteXR [9k\]: yes
guojuan [5p\]: yes
murky: Could you hear us?
Uvas [-\]: yes!
Ciovo [8k\]: yes
rayen [8k\]: yes
Firzen [16k\]: yes
WE0ARE0SIN [?\]: hi
Pnin [?\]: indeed!
aditsu [12k\]: so-so
Conch [12k\]: yes   was exciting live
murky: Yes, very much
gertzu [-\]: guo is strong;)
wrong [?\]: hope You two got to the finals ^_^
fryskenfry [18k\]: review a mingju-guojuan game? 
wrong [?\]: but only ONE can win :(
gogogo07 [10k?\]: yeep
rayen [8k\]: 3 winners
murky: Show a game please
Ophelia [14k?\]: please. ^_^
rayen [8k\]: yup
Firzen [16k\]: what about the homework?
rayen [8k\]: oh
Grimley [5k\]: from merlijn kuin?
guojuan [5p\]: thanks mingjiu :)
WE0ARE0SIN [?\]: homework
]
(;B[pp]CR[pp]
;W[dd]CR[dd]C[gertzu [-\]: in 15k game;)
Conch [12k\]: we are amatures
rayen [8k\]: I think the idea is D18 H16  later
]
(;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[dp]CR[dp]
;B[fc]CR[fc]C[murky: amature game, MIngJiu's students
]
;W[cf]CR[cf]
;B[kc]LB[pc:A][id:D][jd:C][qd:B]TR[kc]C[ogfad [12k?\]: :))
Conch [12k\]: all low
Bodo212 [15k\]: low
bigfish [6k?\]: bad
ArCosH [5k\]: flat
aditsu [12k\]: it's "amateur"
yfh2 [6k?\]: micro-chinise ?
braincrash [?\]: wishy washy
wrong [?\]: low?
olczyk [14k\]: Low
gogogo07 [10k?\]: 3 line again
murky: how about this move
hansb [5k?\]: shrunk chinese style?
rayen [8k\]: yes
Zark [5k\]: this happend to me
rayen [8k\]: yes
bigfish [6k?\]: no
Grimley [5k\]: i've seen it..
Firzen [16k\]: yes
bigfish [6k?\]: yes
ljl [13k\]: no
jared [3k\]: yes
Ciovo [8k\]: mini-chinese
Conch [12k\]: yes
Gillian [?\]: never
Blaubaer [6d\]: someone played ot against me ...
keplen [7k?\]: it's 2x 5-space extension, that is ok, isnt it?
wrong [?\]: I've never been 15k :(
fryskenfry [18k\]: still feel very insecure at that side. 
Pnin [?\]: koichi
murky: no
Bodo212 [15k\]: no
rayen [8k\]: no
Conch [12k\]: no
rayen [8k\]: b
flush [2d\]: How strong are the players?
hansb [5k?\]: too low
Fortinbras [6k\]: low
rayen [8k\]: all low
Gillian [?\]: too flat
oeillet [9k?\]: black overconcentrated in upper side
guojuan [5p\]: Merlijn against Rob van Zijst in european oza play like this
bigfish [6k?\]: b makes a chinese opening
murky: what is the difference between A and B
Grimley [5k\]: he showed me(merlijn)
wrong [?\]: if at B, than mini chinese
Grimley [5k\]: only few playes on the tournament knew it he told
fryskenfry [18k\]: q15 playable now? 
flush [2d\]: Oh really?
wrong [?\]: then*
murky: A emphasize left size
murky: side
fryskenfry [18k\]: whereas p16 for b not good
hansb [5k?\]: A likes top side
hansb [5k?\]: B likes top and right side
murky: for A L17 should be at C and D
Javaness [5k\]: too flat
hansb [5k?\]: A inm combination with C or D is okay
]
(;W[qf]CR[qf]
(;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[qi]CR[qi]LB[jd:A]TR[kc]C[Bodo212 [15k\]: A
bigfish [6k?\]: A
Javaness [5k\]: A
bigfish [6k?\]: AAAAA
])
(;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[qh]CR[qh]
;W[pf]CR[pf]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[qc]CR[qc]
;W[rg]CR[rg]C[Ophelia [14k?\]: A is better for Moyo building?
]
;B[of]CR[of]
;W[ph]CR[ph]
;B[og]CR[og]
;W[pi]CR[pi]TR[kc]C[Firzen [16k\]: I'd like black
rayen [8k\]: to low
bigfish [6k?\]: k16
rayen [8k\]: imo
aditsu [12k\]: too close rather than too low
murky: After this joseki, L17 is too low
Ciovo [8k\]: does it makes a lot of difference or is it a pro-level difference? ^_^
]))
(;W[qi]CR[qi])
(;W[qj]CR[qj]C[Grimley [5k\]: Q12 was the trickplay i think
Grimley [5k\]: oh never mind
murky: But, L17 should be at A
]
(;B[qh]TR[qh]
(;W[qm]CR[qm]C[rayen [8k\]: P12 ?
murky: B needs to play to build moyo
Conch [12k\]: shoulder hit will reduce b
ljl [13k\]: p12
keplen [7k?\]: b R5 ?
]
;B[pe]CR[pe]TR[kc]C[bigfish [6k?\]: o3
flush [2d\]: Q8 
rayen [8k\]: still to low imo :p
Catweasle [19k?\]: yes
ljl [13k\]: still looks low, but I like blacks over all
Firzen [16k\]: L17's still too low
aditsu [12k\]: could be worse
rayen [8k\]: w can flatten it out
])
(;W[qn]CR[qn]
;B[ql]CR[ql]C[ALl [3k?\]: black f15?
]
;W[on]CR[on]
;B[nq]CR[nq]
;W[rp]CR[rp]
(;B[qq]CR[qq])
(;B[pk]CR[pk]TR[fc][kc][pc]C[murky: Q10 is big for both sides
rayen [8k\]: the opponents strong point is your strong point ^^
guojuan [5p\]: hihi
guojuan [5p\]: audio?
murky: urgent point
]
;W[qq]CR[qq]C[murky: game
]
(;B[kq]CR[kq]C[murky: B has two choices
josba: q10
hansb [5k?\]: Q10
rayen [8k\]: Q10 
Ophelia [14k?\]: q10

]
(;W[pj]CR[pj]C[erokay [-\]: p9?
Ciovo [8k\]: p12?
erokay [-\]: p9 bad?
]
(;B[nk]CR[nk]
;W[oj]CR[oj]
;B[ok]CR[ok]
;W[oh]CR[oh]C[murky: If L3 W Q10
]
(;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[mi]CR[mi]
;B[lk]CR[lk]
;W[ki]CR[ki]
;B[jk]CR[jk]
;W[ii]LB[qd:A]TR[pc][qe][ii][ki][mi]C[murky: W runs out R10 stone, no other choice. This result still has a open corner at A. 
Hu [12k?\]: Black wall is not facing as big an area as white.
]
;B[]
;W[qd]CR[qd]
;B[pd]CR[pd]
;W[re]CR[re]
(;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[qc]CR[qc]C[murky: It's hard for B to keep the corner
]
;B[pb]CR[pb]C[
]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[rf]CR[rf]
(;W[se]CR[se])
(;W[sd]CR[sd]C[murky: It's ko live.  
murky: mistake to make T16 move
murky: correct move is T15
]
;B[qa]CR[qa]
;W[ra]CR[ra]
;B[sb]CR[sb]))
(;B[rd]CR[rd]C[wingnut [-\]: power of L11 W group makes top right corner invasion possible
]
;W[qf]CR[qf]))
(;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[mi]CR[mi]C[murky: If B play R14, corner still open
]))
(;B[oj]CR[oj]C[aditsu [12k\]: no
wingnut [-\]: B gets cut?
]
(;W[oi]CR[oi]
;B[pi]CR[pi]C[Javaness [5k\]: this cut seems nice
])
(;W[ph]CR[ph]C[murky: P10 test ur opponent
]
;B[qg]CR[qg]
;W[oi]CR[oi]C[murky: W plays Q12
rayen [8k\]: uh oh
]
;B[ok]CR[ok]
;W[mi]CR[mi]
;B[mk]CR[mk]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[qd]CR[qd]C[aditsu [12k\]: that was not p9
]
;W[qe]CR[qe]C[Ciovo [8k\]: and what about p12 instead of p9?
])))
(;W[pe]CR[pe]C[murky: the game]
(;B[nd]CR[nd]C[murky: W's plan
]
;W[pj]CR[pj]
;B[nk]CR[nk]
;W[oj]CR[oj]
;B[ok]CR[ok]
;W[pg]CR[pg]C[murky: W's plan 
])
(;B[oh]CR[oh]C[Conch [12k\]: alone now
Ophelia [14k?\]: bad
SitaRam [5k?\]: weak
Conch [12k\]: b profit for free
]
(;W[ne]CR[ne]C[Ophelia [14k?\]: no base and separated.
]
;B[nc]CR[nc]C[Javaness [5k\]: R17?
aditsu [12k\]: w resigns
])
(;W[nd]CR[nd]
;B[nc]CR[nc]C[murky: B should tenuki, W is in weak position
]
;W[mc]CR[mc]
;B[od]CR[od]))
(;B[pj]CR[pj]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[pb]CR[pb]C[rayen [8k\]: P17 
Blaubaer [6d\]: sacrificr r18?
murky: B made a mistake
erokay [-\]: r16?
rayen [8k\]: R16 
Blaubaer [6d\]: sacrifice...
josba: unexpected eof??
rayen [8k\]: rejin
wrong [?\]: what if...
]
(;B[ob]CR[ob]C[rayen [8k\]: hm
]
;W[pd]CR[pd]C[murky: inefficient for B
wrong [?\]: I wanted to ask what if B r16, and W doesn't cut
]
;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[pa]CR[pa]
;W[rd]CR[rd]TR[kc][qh][pj][pk][ql]C[murky: game first
SitaRam [5k?\]: good for w
Blaubaer [6d\]: w ok
Bomberman [17k\]: w is nice settled
rayen [8k\]: good for w
josba: even
Ophelia [14k?\]: both ok.
flush [2d\]: too easy for w..
murky: W lives, marked stones are not positioned well
flush [2d\]: not efficient combination
])
(;B[qd]CR[qd]C[SitaRam [5k?\]: better
rayen [8k\]: rejoin
]
(;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[pd]CR[pd]
;W[od]CR[od]
;B[oe]CR[oe]
;W[ob]CR[ob]
;B[rc]CR[rc]TR[kc]C[murky: B should atari the other way
murky: W's hard to continue
murky: marked stone in good position])
(;W[rc]CR[rc]C[erokay [-\]: q16
Blaubaer [6d\]: q16?
rayen [8k\]: Q16 
Grimley [5k\]: q16 now
Demerzel [4d?\]: just leave and join again
]
(;B[pd]CR[pd]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[ob]CR[ob]
;B[re]CR[re]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[nc]CR[nc]C[rayen [8k\]: b so good
erokay [-\]: better?
rayen [8k\]: b
aditsu [12k\]: nice moyo
SitaRam [5k?\]: b
hansb [5k?\]: white
])
(;B[rd]CR[rd]C[aditsu [12k\]: if you got eof, close and rejoin
rayen [8k\]: if you get that warning
]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[oc]CR[oc]C[josba: thx
]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[qf]CR[qf]C[Eup [-\]: can white play R16 if black plays P17 ?
]
;W[ob]CR[ob]C[erokay [-\]: where the go sound?
erokay [-\]: :P
]
;B[nc]CR[nc]C[Tarkam [10k?\]: can you repeat ?
Bomberman [17k\]: we here you "hu hu hu" ing
Conch [12k\]: hello
]
(;W[nb]CR[nb]C[murky: sound gone
fryskenfry [18k\]: sound lag now. 
braincrash [?\]: b has powerful armies
]
;B[mc]CR[mc]C[Catweasle [19k?\]: sound crashed
murky: B has R19
Bomberman [17k\]: ear
murky: B can also N17
WE0ARE0SIN [?\]: ohho
])
(;W[]C[erokay [-\]: oh
]
;B[nb]CR[nb]C[erokay [-\]: ok
braincrash [?\]: sound ok
fryskenfry [18k\]: ok again
]
;W[sd]CR[sd]))))
(;B[oc]CR[oc]C[flush [2d\]: P17 
rayen [8k\]: ^^
]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[pd]CR[pd]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[ob]CR[ob]
;B[nb]CR[nb]C[erokay [-\]: uhm.
murky: MingJiu's preference move
erokay [-\]: :)
murky: P17
Conch [12k\]: extend from crosscut
]))))
(;B[pj]CR[pj]C[murky: B's other choice is tenuki, MingJiu prefers this move to build moyo
]))))
(;B[ql]CR[ql]
;W[qe]CR[qe]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[pg]CR[pg]LB[ic:A]TR[kc]C[murky: If B builds UR corner moyo, L17 is not good shape
murky: If B builds LR corner, it's better, But L17 is better at A. 
])))
(;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[dp]CR[dp]
;B[fc]CR[fc]
;W[cf]CR[cf]C[Gillian [?\]: K16 correct no ?
]
;B[kc]CR[kc]C[guojuan [5p\]: trick :)
murky: This is minichinese openning
]))
(;B[dp]CR[dp]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
;B[dd]CR[dd]C[WE0ARE0SIN [?\]: hi
]
;W[pq]CR[pq]
;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[pg]CR[pg]
;B[ne]CR[ne]
;W[nc]CR[nc]C[keiju2 [14k\]: hi
]
;B[po]CR[po]
;W[ng]CR[ng]
;B[le]CR[le]
;W[pl]CR[pl]
;B[mp]CR[mp]
;W[oo]CR[oo]
;B[on]CR[on]
;W[no]CR[no]
;B[pp]CR[pp]
;W[nq]CR[nq]C[Ciovo [8k\]: yes
]
;B[qq]CR[qq]
;W[oq]CR[oq]
;B[nn]CR[nn]C[murky: GuoJuan's game
]
;W[mo]CR[mo]
;B[rp]CR[rp]
;W[hq]CR[hq]C[Ciovo [8k\]: yes
]
;B[ip]CR[ip]
;W[hp]CR[hp]
;B[io]CR[io]
;W[ho]CR[ho]
;B[in]CR[in]
;W[jr]CR[jr]C[murky: UL is at 34
]
;B[kc]CR[kc]C[aditsu [12k\]: I couldn't remember more than 3-4 moves :p
Demerzel [4d?\]: D16 is at D17 actually
guojuan [5p\]: my game :0
]
(;W[lm]CR[lm]C[QuanSiMenh [9k\]: if u can't hear anything, just close the game n enter again
murky: D17
Blaubaer [6d\]: b d16 at d17?
]
;B[ol]CR[ol]
;W[ok]CR[ok]C[goshu [8k?\]: wq6 ?
]
;B[nl]CR[nl]
(;W[ql]CR[ql]C[murky: There is a cutting point for W in the game
aditsu [12k\]: but w was just having fun
]
(;B[mk]CR[mk])
(;B[qc]CR[qc]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[ob]CR[ob]
(;B[qi]CR[qi]C[murky: B keeps this aji
murky: at R11
])
(;B[mk]CR[mk]LB[qi:A][mn:B]C[murky: B's proper move
])))
(;W[qm]CR[qm]
;B[qn]CR[qn]
(;W[rn]CR[rn])
(;W[pm]CR[pm]
;B[pn]CR[pn]
;W[il]CR[il]C[goshu [8k?\]: what about q 6 instead of r7 ?
murky: W's move R7 is better to take sente
])))
(;W[mn]CR[mn]
;B[ol]CR[ol]
;W[hl]CR[hl]LB[ml:A][pl:B]C[murky: In the game, W thought about N6
murky: But, W must play H8 
]
;B[jl]CR[jl]C[murky: MingJiu prefer this sequence
]
(;W[jm]CR[jm])
(;W[ml]CR[ml]
;B[pk]CR[pk]
;W[jm]CR[jm])))
(;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[rb]CR[rb]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[pe]CR[pe]
;B[qd]CR[qd]C[wrong [?\]: It is a real pleasure to see more pros discuss the same position
]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[oe]CR[oe]
;W[pf]CR[pf]
;B[of]CR[of]
;W[rf]CR[rf]
;B[ob]CR[ob]C[aditsu [12k\]: I heard they seldom agree
wrong [?\]: one can learn a lot by comparing their opinions
]
;W[qi]CR[qi]
(;B[pg]CR[pg])
(;B[og]CR[og]
;W[ri]CR[ri]
;B[rh]CR[rh]
;W[aa]CR[aa]
;B[qh]CR[qh]
;W[rk]CR[rk]
;B[ph]CR[ph]
;W[ab]CR[ab]
;B[si]CR[si]LB[qe:B][se:C][qf:D][sf:A]C[wrong [?\]: coz, different people, different styles
murky: Homework
aditsu [12k\]: looks like somebody should learn the edit tool
wrong [?\]: I'd play t17
Firzen [16k\]: I'd say R15
SitaRam [5k?\]: w dead
hansb [5k?\]: black kills white
Firzen [16k\]: white lives
murky: result is....
Zark [5k\]: white dies
ljl [13k\]: lol, white lived in my practice
erokay [-\]: what is problem?
WE0ARE0SIN [?\]: white live
SitaRam [5k?\]: kill em all
hansb [5k?\]: kills the all !
erokay [-\]: w play and live?
WE0ARE0SIN [?\]: life for white
aditsu [12k\]: including a19
ljl [13k\]: me is slow thinker I guess
hansb [5k?\]: black T14
murky: killing three stones not good enough
rayen [8k\]: R15 
SitaRam [5k?\]: r15 honte
Firzen [16k\]: R15
Zark [5k\]: t14
wrong [?\]: W has t13, not very easy
RobbeN [6k?\]: t15
rayen [8k\]: :p
ljl [13k\]: r14
erokay [-\]: A is big
murky: W's answer to R15 is T13
]
;W[ba]CR[ba]
(;B[qe]CR[qe]C[rayen [8k\]: easy !
QuanSiMenh [9k\]: r15
hansb [5k?\]: wgite T13
Firzen [16k\]: T13
]
(;W[sg]CR[sg]C[Blaubaer [6d\]:  t13?
wrong [?\]: B got sente too ^_^
]
(;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[qg]CR[qg]
;W[sh]CR[sh]C[Uvas [-\]: ooops
])
(;B[rg]CR[rg]
;W[sf]CR[sf]C[hansb [5k?\]: white T14
]
;B[sh]CR[sh]
;W[re]CR[re]C[murky: R15 only kills 3 stones
Firzen [16k\]: alive
]))
(;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[sc]CR[sc]C[rayen [8k\]: dead
]))
(;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[qe]CR[qe])
(;B[se]CR[se]
;W[sf]CR[sf])
(;B[sf]CR[sf]C[hansb [5k?\]: works
rayen [8k\]: doesnt
Uvas [-\]: works
Firzen [16k\]: I'd say doesn't
rayen [8k\]: or maybe
aditsu [12k\]: t15
erokay [-\]: n.p.
]
(;W[se]CR[se]C[hansb [5k?\]: R15
]
;B[qe]CR[qe]C[Blaubaer [6d\]: t13
SitaRam [5k?\]: t13
]
;W[rg]CR[rg]C[aditsu [12k\]: t
hansb [5k?\]: T13
aditsu [12k\]: you didn't play t13
murky: T13 the key move
]
;B[sg]CR[sg]
;W[sh]CR[sh]
;B[sg]CR[sg]LB[sc:B][qf:A]C[erokay [-\]: w dead
erokay [-\]: first t14 is good
Uvas [-\]: nice
erokay [-\]: i telled it
erokay [-\]: :D
])
(;W[rg]CR[rg]
;B[sg]CR[sg]
;W[se]CR[se]
;B[qe]CR[qe])
(;W[sg]CR[sg]
;B[rg]CR[rg]
(;W[se]CR[se]
;B[qe]CR[qe])
(;W[qe]CR[qe]
;B[se]CR[se]C[erokay [-\]: dead
erokay [-\]: n.p.
erokay [-\]: t14 good
Blaubaer [6d\]: :-)
Firzen [16k\]: What if white answers R14 directly to R15
rayen [8k\]: I didnt do homework ^^
wrong [?\]: new homework?
murky: did it wrong
])))))
(;B[pb]CR[pb]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[rd]CR[rd]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[sd]CR[sd]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[od]CR[od]
;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[ob]CR[ob]
;B[lb]CR[lb]
;W[aa]CR[aa]
;B[mc]CR[mc]
;W[ab]CR[ab]
;B[oe]CR[oe]
;W[ac]CR[ac]
;B[ld]CR[ld]
;W[ad]CR[ad]
;B[me]CR[me]
;W[md]CR[md]C[wingnut [-\]: This weeks Homework: Black to play
erokay [-\]: b play and kill?
Uvas [-\]: to kill?
Uvas [-\]: hehe
murky: new homework, B to attack
RobbeN [6k?\]: s18
wrong [?\]: WHat is the use of N16?
wingnut [-\]: if you can kill then kill :)
hansb [5k?\]: is that zen?
WE0ARE0SIN [?\]: ...two websites that forever changed my life are: http://www.runescape.com/ and http://www.christianity.com/ ...dont be shy, go there and see for yourselves!
rayen [8k\]: now ? or homework ?
Ciovo [8k\]: thank you mingjiu!
murky: capture one stone is not good enough
rayen [8k\]: thx
wrong [?\]: xie xie lao shi
SitaRam [5k?\]: thx mingjiu
murky: thanks.
au2 [4k\]: THANKS FOR THE LECTURE
goshu [8k?\]: thx
mallow [17k?\]: thanks
Blaubaer [6d\]: thx
wrong [?\]: thanks to ING FOUNDATION too
WE0ARE0SIN [?\]: thanks
Catweasle [19k?\]: thx!
pizzahut [13k\]: thanks!
SitaRam [5k?\]: see you
Shikasta [17k\]: thxs
au2 [4k\]: THANKS TO ING FOUNDATION
erokay [-\]: xie xier
wingnut [-\]: thanks mingjiu and Mr Ing
BruceLeroy [8k\]: see you
noel [10k\]: thank you
Catweasle [19k?\]: baibai!
WE0ARE0SIN [?\]: bye
guojuan [5p\]: see you
linfir [?\]: thanks
]))
